Today I had to cover a press conference on the preparations for the Jubilee of Mercy which starts in Rome on December 8th. It was organized by the Opera Romana Pellegrinaggi in a fabulous room in the Lateran Palace (part of the Saint John the Lateran Complex in Rome). I was working with my colleague Paolo Santalucia and we were particularly interested in getting a soundbite from Archbishop Rino Fisichella who is head of the Pontifical Council for Promotion of the New Evangelisation and a key figure in the organization of the Jubilee.
As Paolo and I took a taxi to the event we talked about what kind of comment we needed. We are preparing a preview story on the Jubilee including pilgrims arriving on foot, security boosted around the Vatican and a look at the Holy Doors. We decided we needed an explanation from the Archbishop on the tradition of the Holy Doors and indulgence and some of the practicalities surrounding it during this Jubilee.
We have learned that pilgrims coming to Rome for this Jubilee can sign up on line for an appointment to go through the Holy Doors and can get a certificate after they do. We wanted more information on that whole process.
One thing I have learned from my 30 years as a journalist is there is never a dumb question. AP has 8500 subscribers in 120 countries. We deliver news to a lot of people who are not Catholic and may not know how a jubilee works. There are also plenty of Catholics around the world who do not understand how the Jubilee works. I need to ask the questions they might want to know the answers to.
The press conference was an event where various businesses described contributions they were making to the jubilee. Prior to the press conference a large group – who seemed to be from the various companies– got a private tour of the palace. Afterwards, there was a nice buffet. When the press conference began, a top official from Alitalia spoke of special flights for Pilgrims coming to the jubilee, and a top official from the Italian train company spoke of special trains for pilgrims.
Finally it was Archbishop Fisichella’s turn to speak and he began by explaining that the reason he was wearing his elegant Archbishop’s vestments was that he had just come from a meeting with the Pope “therefore I had to be dressed in this way.” Otherwise, he said, he would have worn simple priestly vestments.
He went on to say that the Jubilee is a spiritual event in which everyone needs to feel the beauty and mercy of God.
Eventually they opened it up to questions. The Archbishop seemed impatient. Finally I got my turn so I asked my question and somehow managed to infuriate the Archbishop who could barely control his hostility and ended up telling me in a patronizing tone that he would fail me at school because I do not even know the ABCs of indulgence.
Fortunately, we had all this on camera so I was able to go back and transcribe it later. This is how it went:
TRISHA THOMAS:
“My name is Trisha Thomas, I am from Associated Press Television and I have a question for Cardinal Fisichella. Could you explain to us in a very simple way for pilgrims who are coming from all over the world how does this indulgence work? They can do the inscription on line, then they can go through the doors, then how does it work after that? They have a certificate, or something to keep for themselves, or is it something personal that they have and that is all?”
ARCHBISHOP RINO FISICHELLA:
“Look if you think that to obtain an indulgence it is necessary to have a document I fear that you create in me the spirit of the old University professor and I will have to send you back to school because it is clear that you do not know the ABCs of indulgence.”
(Here there was a general snickering as all the business people – clearly good Catholics and well informed on indulgence– got a laugh)
He went on:
“But because I do not want to be rude, and because at 3pm I have to go to the Vatican and then return again here to the Lateran, the time – even in 5 minutes – to explain what is indulgence would be very difficult for me. I invite you to read “”the Signs of the Jubilee” (the Archbishop’s book), where there is a chapter on the indulgence.”
At this point, I started to get a bit miffed by his patronizing attitude, and since I still had the microphone in my hand, I decided to clarify:
TRISHA:
“I am asking you this because we are a television new agency that goes all over the world, and we have heard …
FISICHELLA (INTERRUPTING AND CLEARLY VERY IRRITATED)
“…but you cannot ask me if you can get a certificate for an indulgence because there does not exist any certificate for the indulgence..
TRISHA
“We have heard that there will be…”
FISCHELLA (INTERRUPTING):
“to obtain an indulgence you only have to confess,
TRISHA (INTERUPTING)
“We know that…”
FISICHELLA:
“and we don’t hand out a document that someone has confessed,” — at the point he angrily shoved his microphone away
TRISHA:
“I am sorry, obviously we know that there is all the Catholic tradition, but we have heard there will be certificates, so you are telling me this is an error?”
FISICHELLA (CLEARLY ANGRY)
“A certificate of indulgence does not exist, so who could have told you nonsense like that!! Tell me who said it?? Because there does not exist any certificate for any indulgence!! There exists a certificate for who comes on foot or for who wants to say that he participated in the Jubilee but not the indulgence. Those who come on foot and participate as a pilgrim on foot can come to number 5 on Via Della Conciliazione and will get a diploma that he has made the pilgrimage on foot, which does not mean he has gotten an indulgence.”
So it turns out there is a certificate. It is not a certificate of indulgence, but it is a certificate of participation in the Jubilee.
After I left the office today a young woman from the Opera Romana Pellegrinaggio called and apologized for the Archbishop’s comments and said my question was perfectly legitimate. She then offered me an interview with someone else. I am wondering why my question about the certificates hit such a nerve.
I have covered several of Pope Francis’ conferences aboard the Papal plane in which he has taken all sorts of questions from journalists from all over the world and never showed such arrogance or impatience. I have also covered dozens of press conferences with the gentle Papal spokesman Father Federico Lombardi who has had to field a vast array of sometimes inane questions from journalists who have no clue about the Catholic Church. He always does so with patience and grace.
And for those of you who might not be experts on “indulgence” and have not read the key chapter in Archbishop’s Fisichella’s book on “indulgence”, below is a definition from the Code of Canon Law (can. 992):
“An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints”.
Right.
In layman’s terms I would say it is a basic washing up, a clearing away of sins. During a Jubilee Year, a Catholic who has confessed his or her sins and passes through the door will receive a special indulgence. But indulgence is a complicated issue with a rather tainted past and deserves a longer post. This one is dedicated to a piqued prelate.
Old school. What can I say, but this is the type of man who drove Bart and me away from the church. It is a pity, but it is true. Kudos to your for asking and for persisting.
It is interesting. I really felt like he needs to get with the program. Listening to him yesterday I was also reminded of Pope Francis’ 2014 Christmas address to the Curia — here is the AP lead from that speech
“Pope Francis issued a blistering critique Monday of the Vatican bureaucracy that serves him, denouncing how some people lust for power at all costs, live hypocritical double lives and suffer from “spiritual Alzheimer’s” that has made them forget they’re supposed to be joyful men of God.”
I am really glad you called him on this and also published the record of his rudeness. This is absolutely not the spirit of kindness and reconciliation that Pope Francis is trying to promote. I would love to know what was really bugging him to cause such an eruption. If you find out I hope you will share that INFO with us.
I will say that in the photos, he looks like he has a helluva headache.
I am definitely planning an update.
“be curious not judgmental” Walt Whitman
BRAVA Trisha!!!!!
Ha!! Grazie Gregorio!
This is a wonderful story. It also suggests what Francis has to deal with in trying to reform the Vatican. Good for you for holding your ground in the face of officialdom!. Maybe the the Archbishop needs to confess his sins of intemperance and receive an indulgence!
You are right. The Archbishop will definitely have plenty of opportunity to seek an indulgence and pass through some Holy Doors in the coming year!
wow Trisha what an exchange. Your question was absolutely on the spot and his behavior is pretty nasty, definitely not a good messenger for this Pope!
Thank you Jane. He was definitely not a good messenger for the Pope, the Vatican or the Catholic Church. And if he is hoping to get his Cardinal’s hat, I think he will have to work on his manners a bit. I am quite sure the Pope would not approve of that combination of arrogance/condescension and patronizing tone in a top Vatican official.
Thank you Jane. He is definitely not a good messenger for the Pope. Perhaps he will learn from his mistakes and improve if he is hoping to get a Cardinal’s hat some day. I think Pope Francis would not approve of his arrogance/condescension and patronizing tone.
. . it is, after all, just another global business corporation – it has a reputation for shady, disreputable transactions and has a history of commodifying whatever it can to turn a quick buck. This object (I was going to call him an arse, but that would be ill-mannered) of an executive/director/board member was probably anticipating a line of questioning from you about previous profiteering from the sins of the world’s sheeple.
Well it did occur to me that perhaps he got so irritated because he thought I was implying they were getting money for certificates for passing through the Holy Door.
I love your courage, your perserverance and your sense of irony. Keep going!!!
Thank you Susan!!
Way to go, Trisha! This old journalism teacher is proud of you and this old Catholic thinks the archbishop is–whatever anyone wants to call him. Crab is a nice word.
I’m afraid I will never gain the indulgence in Rome. While I will be there after the doors are open, when I read about the project ( and I use the word purposely) about going through the Holy Door at St. Peter’s, I decided I did not have the time to waste to do that–choose a day and morning or afternoon. No way. I have too much I want to see to give a half day over to waiting for a time.
I have also just read about three-day passes, etc for Rome sites, coupons on meals, etc in one of the newsletters I receive, I will pass. i had no trouble making my reservations on line to visit the Scavi, the Vatican Gardens, and a second day at the Vatican Museums. I only foresee a problem managing to go from the Sistine Chapel down to the Basilica though with my garden tour receipt, I could do that last time. Yes, it takes me two days to do the museums.
Sorry for babbling on so long, but in two weeks I will be in Rome. I’m excited!
A presto,
Joan
Thank you Joan. I appreciate your support as a journalism teacher. I am sure I could learn a lot from you. You are going to have a fabulous time in Rome, and if you have time, stop by and say hello.
I’m reading God’s Bankers just now. There is much in this book about indulgences…one of the major ways the church made money in the past. My goodness, if you were rich enough you could pay your way out of purgatory and behave any way you liked for the rest of your earthly life!!! I find this book written in a very dry way to the point of being boring…but others have found it a page turner because it describes the corruptions over the centuries. The mafia could learn a thing or two..for that matter members of the mafia washed their money in the Vatican bank…and probably still do but I haven’t gotten that far yet. God’s Bankers and Spotlight the movie are a dynamic duo. …a must read and a must see.
Hi Penny — I have read “God’s Bankers” and I must see “Spotlight”. The Catholic Church has a closet packed with skeletons and it is important that journalists expose that. But, in all fairness, there are also so many Catholics out there doing really good things. The other day at his weekly audience the Pope spoke about an Italian Nun who he met on his recent trip to Africa. She said she started as a missionary at age 24 and since then has delivered 3280 babies. Wow!! There are a lot of people like her out there doing important work. I think Pope Francis is also making a huge effort to reform and improve the Church.
Oh come on – his impatience and testiness is just a reaction to how much of Christian culture has been lost. Indulgences were at the heart of the reformation, and all that led to – is it too much to think a 30 yr vet might have an inkling about what an indulgence might be ? You prept the question but decided against a Google – you got off lightly
Hi Kevin, you may be right. Perhaps I should have done my homework better. However, the point is not my knowledge on the history and the traditions of the Catholic Church. I needed a simple soundbite from a top Vatican official explaining how the Jubilee will work for pilgrims coming to Rome, both the practicalities and the significance of passing through the Holy Doors. I may have not worded my question correctly, but his answer was inappropriate.
That is hilarious that he was so annoyed with your question. As for me, I am wondering why he appears to have 2 black eyes? Was he in a fight with someone? Or maybe he has some allergies or more serious physical issues that also affect his mood & made him so testy….LOL
I guess it is funny, but it did not seem so at the time. I am not sure what was going on with his eyes. He does have a huge responsibility for the Jubilee year, which starts on Tuesday, so maybe he has been working long hours and getting little sleep. That would explain his irritability. But if the Vatican is going to put him in front of press conferences to discuss the Jubilee with the journalists like me, he needs to learn some communication skills in a hurry.
Brava Trish!
It’s much easier to be a Protestant, lapsed Lutheran that I am. I’ve never really understood indulgences. The paragraph from his book is not exactly doing it for me either. Thanks for the plain English and I’ll look forward to a longer explanation.
Thank you Laurel. I will do a much more thorough blog post with an explanation of indulgences and their history in the Catholic church. I suppose being a protestant is much easier, but then I guess you never get that wiped-clean slate feeling once your sins have been forgiven.
Maybe the pope had just given him a “tongue lashing”! And he was just passing it forward. We all know that the clergy are just men like regular men.
Ciao Mura, that definitely did occur to me. Perhaps the Pope had scolded him about something with the organization of the Jubilee that he is not happy about and, as you say, he was just passing it forward. I am very curious but I doubt we will ever know.
“… I have a question for Cardinal Fisichella.”
Well, there’s your answer, Trisha. You addressed him as CARDINAL, which he certainly is not, but which, by all accounts (meaning, according to the Vatican whisperers/gossipers), he eagerly and confidently expected to be, until, you know, Pope Francis came along and, you know, ruined, er I mean, changed the rule of the “who’s getting the coveted Red Hat” game.
You hit him where it hurts the most. No wonder he hit you back. Duh.
:-)
With that said, I must disagree with you on this: “One thing I have learned from my 30 years as a journalist is there is never a dumb question.”
In the world of professional journalists, I rather think there is and should be such a thing as a dumb question.
A case in point:
If one is a paid professional journalist, assigned to cover the Catholic Church and the upcoming Jubilee of Mercy, for example, one should not be so unprepared and uninformed as to go to the Vatican press conference and ask such questions as: (a) What is a confession? How does it work for the faithful? Or (b) What is an indulgence? How does it work for the pilgrims?
I’d rather they spend press conference time addressing questions that cannot easily be found via Googling on the web, like these:
(a) There are many different opinions — among canon lawyers, theologians, priests and bishops, and the faithful — on what a priest can or cannot absolve in confession. Some say every priest can forgive every sin anytime anywhere during confession; others say for certain sins — “sins reserved to the Holy See” — priests would need special permission from their bishops and/or the Pope/Holy See to be allowed to give absolution. In light of the Jubilee of Mercy, during which confession will figure prominently, could you provide some clarification on this?
(b) There have been reports about the pilgrims coming to Rome getting some sort of Jubilee certificates for indulgences, for passing through the holy doors, etc. Could you clarify if this is true? And if it is true that the Vatican is planning to issue any Jubilee certificates, given the long history of corruption in the Church, especially in regards to indulgences, what is the purpose of such certificates, and how is the Church planning to counter the scammers making money off of gullible pilgrims misusing the name of the Church?
(Of course, a good reporter should not be so long-winded and wordy with his/her questions, but that’s another issue.)
But, I’m not a professional reporter so what do I know.
Anyway, so sorry you had to deal with MONSIGNOR (heh) Fisichella’s misguided and misdirected irritation. There is just no excuse for it, especially from a minster of the church.
For what it’s worth though, I think it was your question that prompted the Vatican to mention and warn against inauthentic certificates during the next day’s (Dec. 4) press conference at the Vatican press hall. Were you there also? Cause if so, I would’ve been tempted to ask the exact same question just to see him squirm in front of a packed press hall. I bet he would not have been so quick to show his arrogant and condescending self then.
Looking forward to your “much more thorough blog post with an explanation of indulgences and their history in the Catholic church.”
Beth, you totally crack me up. You and only one other reader noticed that!! You know they always tell us if you have to make a mistake, do it upwards, meaning call a Bishop a Cardinal, call a Priest a Monsignor, use Eminenza for an Eccellenza. Well in this case, as you point out, “DUH!” –although I did not do it on purpose, I blew it. The guy hasn’t gotten his Cardinal’s hat and I called him a Cardinal. He is still an Archbishop, clearly desperate to become a Cardinal. I think that word must have put a little salt in his wound and set him off. If he wants to become a Cardinal, though, he needs to learn to control that temper a bit. You are so right on Beth– I think I need to retire and give you my job!!
Hi Trisha
Wow – he must have missed his morning coffee. I am still confused – so if pilgrims arrive on foot they can get a certificate (similar to a Compostela if they do the Camino in Spain). I wonder if that has terms and conditions too – like walking a long way from a starting point? I bet a question like that would really set him off !
He definitely missed his morning coffee! I think the certificate is a little bit like the Santiago De Compostela one. I still have not seen one yet. I will need to do a proper post on the Jubilee and the whole rigamarole — both the modern practicalities like on-line inscriptions and traditional practices like indulgence. Tomorrow I will be up at dawn to go to Saint Peter’s Square for the big door-opening ceremony.